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  • bigyabai · 19 days ago

    WayVR is also worth checking out, if you're interested in using a native x11/Wayland desktop with a headset on Linux: https://github.com/wayvr-org/wayvr

    • fp64 · 19 days ago

      >3D in 2D in 3D. OpenGL clients can use GLX rendering over X11. Compatibility varies, as it did in the 2000s.

      Made me chuckle. I think at one point in my life I actually knew which exact GL versions and features were working on which servers. Also it's pretty cool.

      Still won't buy an AVP.

      • fragmede · 19 days ago

        why not? Personally, I tried but the crap with my prescription because I wear glasses was too much, so I didn't end up getting one because I fail at executive function.

        • bigyabai · 18 days ago

          I need a new couch more than I need an AR headset, for one. $3,500 is a lot of money for a glorified devkit.

          • mulderc · 18 days ago

            The Apple Lisa was introduced at around $10k (~$32k in today’s dollars). I do agree it is expensive but not historically out of line for a version one of a new product category for the company.

            • bigyabai · 18 days ago

              And thousands of Lisas went unsold, eventually getting dumped in a landfill after failing to find an eager audience like the Apple II enjoyed. There's a lesson, there.

              • mulderc · 18 days ago

                Without the Lisa we wouldn’t have the Mac. The Vision Pro is a first gen of a new product category for Apple and I fully expect whatever comes from it will be very different than what we have today.

                • Someone · 18 days ago

                  The Mac arrived one year and five days after the Lisa. Vision Pro is over two years old now. It got a speed bump, but not a price decrease.

                  I think the Vision Pro will be more like the Newton vs current iPads. Something will eventually replace it, but it will be significantly different, not slightly different, like Lisa vs Mac (I know they cut corners for the Mac, changing some nice OS features)

                  • ChrisMarshallNY · 18 days ago

                    > Without the Lisa we wouldn’t have the Mac.

                    Without the NeXt Cube, we wouldn’t have the modern MacOS, or, for that matter, the iPhone (or Vision). Apple would certainly not be a multi-trillion-dollar company, and the Cube was a commercial flop.

                    In that case, it wasn’t the hardware, but the operating system and app development framework that made the difference.

                    • Danox · 18 days ago

                      And that will be true about the Apple Vision too, how do you get there if you don’t have the ability to put the operating system and the hardware together and then iterate, the biggest problems with the Apple Vision is that it needs to be three or four times faster performance wise than what it is, needs to be half the size and it definitely needs to be more energy efficient from a battery standpoint and last but not least half the current price how does that happen? Only through iteration over time.

                      • bigyabai · 18 days ago

                        AR simply has no market. Apple could sell Vision Pro for $10,000 apiece, if there was natural demand for high-quality AR hardware. But the product isn't competing for Hololens' commercial contracts, and it forfeit the consumer VR segment on release. The remainder of consumer-forward AR experiences are even less lucrative than Zuckerberg's commoditized Quests. Apple wants to build a nonexistent market with an inaccessible product.

                        Until that demand actually materializes, Apple's ability to miniaturize the tech is inconsequential. Vision Pro's "iPad for your face" philosophy is not enough to carve out a niche, and definitely not enough to displace the iPhone or the Mac.

              • wl · 18 days ago

                You can pay half that on eBay at the moment.

                • bigyabai · 18 days ago

                  Still expensive, for a devkit. $1,750 would buy me a new in-box Pimax Crystal, or likely a Steam Frame with enough money left over to afford a Steam Deck.

                  Vision Pro just doesn't have the content to justify that price. I use VR for flight simming, but even at half-off the Vision Pro looks like one of the worst immersive headsets money can buy.

                • Danox · 18 days ago

                  Actually, that’s cheap….

                  • bigyabai · 18 days ago

                    It is more expensive than all three VR headsets I have owned and the PC I built for them, combined.

                • jitl · 18 days ago

                  im an apple enjoyer with disposable income, i bought because my brother worked on the foveated rendering, but goddamn it’s so heavy that if i use for >2hrs i’ll have neck pain for >2 days. it’s neat and fantastic for chores and cooking if i wear for 30min at a time but super impractical for me to actually use if im not speed running exactly one task

                  • joxdosba · 18 days ago

                    Are you using the new better balanced harness?

                    • jitl · 18 days ago

                      yes. i think i need to do F1 driver neck training or something.

                  • solid_fuel · 18 days ago

                    I've been interested in VR for a while and would be interested to try out a headset I could actually work in, but personally my interest in the Apple Vision Pro basically disappeared when the Steam Frame was announced.

                    It's lower resolution, but I think it would probably be sufficient for light work, and I'm not really interested in the pass-through camera features of the AVP. The real differentiator though was that the steam frame will also work with my existing computer for gaming, and I think it's likely to be much more hackable than the Apple Vision.

                    • ianlevesque · 18 days ago

                      Yes I really hope the memory storage just leads to a delay and not a cancellation.

                    • bayindirh · 18 days ago

                      > why not?

                      For me it's nausea and motion sickness. When my ears don't sync with my eyes, my brain calls bug(), and it doesn't end well.

                      • koolala · 18 days ago

                        PrisonOS. It isn't a computer. They control everything to take 30% sales and monopolize the ecosystem including controlling your whole body.

                    • lorecore · 19 days ago

                      Neat, it would be cool if it also worked on the Quest.

                      • sourcegrift · 19 days ago

                        On that note, anybody has rayneo air4 pro working with x11?

                        • thx67 · 19 days ago

                          I can't believe the screenshot isn't running xeyes. At least it is TWM.

                          • zer0zzz · 19 days ago

                            I was thinking the same thing

                            • dofm · 19 days ago

                              Right. The only thing I want to know is do the xeyes follow you around the room!?

                              • jrmg · 19 days ago

                                Apps don’t get access to gaze position on the Vision Pro, for privacy/security reasons.

                              • TeMPOraL · 18 days ago

                                Could you run xeyes on the outside? IIRC Apple Vision had this outer display for rendering the bits of user's face that are covered by it.

                                • mietek · 18 days ago

                                  Indeed, it's annoying that there doesn't seem to be an Apple-approved method for customizing the outer display.

                              • dosisking · 19 days ago

                                I thought it would have something to do with Weird Al. Oh well

                                • jeffreygoesto · 19 days ago

                                  Bet Raul's wild kingdom would be awesome in 3D...

                                  • dosisking · 18 days ago

                                    It would be fun to teach poodles how to fly in 3D

                                • yjftsjthsd-h · 19 days ago

                                  Interesting. I wonder if it's based on Xorg or something else

                                  • exe34 · 19 days ago

                                    May I ask what the recommendation is at the moment if I want a Linux AR headset that can take prescription lenses (or accommodate glasses)? I'd like to write my own code but not have to beg somebody else to let me run it.

                                    • nolist_policy · 19 days ago

                                      Meta Quest, but treat it as a dumb headset with ALVR?

                                      • exe34 · 19 days ago

                                        Thanks!

                                        • SequoiaHope · 18 days ago

                                          Steam frame is out soon and should be the ultimate Linux friendly headset. It runs real Linux and Valve is big on “it’s your computer to use as you please”.

                                          • SG- · 18 days ago

                                            right after Half-Life 3 comes out soon.

                                            • SequoiaHope · 18 days ago

                                              Signs really do seem to suggest it will be announced soon. There’s records of multiple large shipments of Virtual Reality headsets arriving at Valve, and they say it’s coming out this summer.

                                            • asimovDev · 17 days ago

                                              but you can't use it like the AVP right? the camera in Steam Frame is black and white only (or is grayscale the better term?)

                                              • jolmg · 16 days ago

                                                There is an expansion port on the nose area that can be used to add color cameras if you really want that.

                                                Personally, I think not being tied to a particular OS in the control of the device manufacturer is much more important than whether the cameras are color or just grayscale.

                                                • asimovDev · 16 days ago

                                                  well the whole point of AVP, at least to me and many others, is the AR functionality , being able to walk around your house and having virtual screens in every room. Stuff like that. You would want full colour for that I think

                                                  • jolmg · 16 days ago

                                                    The LCDs are colored so the virtual screens would also be. Not sure walking around a grayscale world is all that bad.

                                                • SequoiaHope · 14 days ago

                                                  Ah you’re right I was keying off of “Linux friendly” and missed the AR part.

                                            • SequoiaHope · 18 days ago

                                              Oh absolutely wait like two weeks and get on the list for a Steam Frame. It actually runs arch Linux and Steam says “it’s your computer, you can do what you want with it” unlike Meta and the Quest. I’m excited to do Kicad in mine.

                                              • exe34 · 18 days ago

                                                Thanks, that looks tempting! Shame about the monochrome camera, but maybe I can use an add-on camera to colour in the world.

                                                • wolvoleo · 17 days ago

                                                  You can do what you want with your quest too. It's android and you can sideload whatever you want.

                                                  I was thinking of getting the steam frame but considering the component crisis it'll probably be well above €1000 and that's a non-starter for me. I'll just stick with my quest 3 which has about the same level of specs. But was only 450€ for me on prime day.

                                                  If it were a significant bump in resolution over the quest (like the vision pro or the galaxy XR) I would have done it. But it's not.

                                              • dipierro · 19 days ago

                                                Seem to be unavailable in German App Store?…

                                                • z3rocool · 19 days ago

                                                  Lots of individual / hobbyist developers are no longer publishing to the EU App Store due to Digital Services Act regulation and compliance.

                                                  • jitl · 18 days ago

                                                    it’s too damn spooky. i know they rolled back or caveated some of the language after the uproar but i certainly would like to travel to the EU without any kind of anxiety about “do my open source apps mean im an EU felon if i forget to check github issues for security issues”

                                                    • inigyou · 18 days ago

                                                      Crimes require criminal intent, generally speaking.

                                                  • saaspirant · 18 days ago

                                                    I know startups who don't publish to certain EU countries because they have to fill "a big scary form"

                                                    • piskov · 18 days ago

                                                      You can always switch to US app store region (cancel exisiting subscriptions, leave family, and wait until apple music/tv subscription is expired).

                                                      You won’t be able to use non-US credit card for the app store but you can always buy US virtual apple gift cards on amazon straight from apple shop there.

                                                      • ErneX · 18 days ago

                                                        Just that easy! /s

                                                        • dipierro · 18 days ago

                                                          I guess it’s easier to find a testflight link if one is set up, or just to create a new account altogether, and sign in to it temporarily.

                                                      • rezmason · 19 days ago

                                                        Very creative!

                                                        Does anyone else besides me suspect X11 will outlive visionOS?

                                                        • calvinmorrison · 19 days ago

                                                          Certainly, XLibre just released a new version 25.2.0. I suspect X11 will long outlast Fedora

                                                          • somat · 18 days ago

                                                            Hell I half expect X11 to outlast wayland at this point.

                                                          • inigyou · 18 days ago

                                                            I'm GLaD to see more X11 projects recently

                                                            • pmkary · 18 days ago

                                                              This is what I call interesting!

                                                              • wolvoleo · 17 days ago

                                                                It would be great if this would work on the quest too. The AVP is just way too expensive.